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 Old Testament Jews and Heaven

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rolltyed
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PostSubject: Old Testament Jews and Heaven   Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:30 pm

Did Old Testament Jews believe that when they died, they would go to Heaven? For that matter, does Judaism today teach that there is an afterlife in Heaven? Please cite references if you choose to answer.

Thanks,
rolltyed
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lmm
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PostSubject: Re: Old Testament Jews and Heaven   Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:50 am

I think they did roll, since the Old Testament is really the Jewish Torah. Here is a good site on info. I don't have time to go into depth right now, but I'll be back tonight. And HI!

http://www.torah.org/learning/perceptions/5770/behar.html
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rolltyed
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PostSubject: Re: Old Testament Jews and Heaven   Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:52 pm

Thanks for the reply LMM. I didn't see anything that specifically referenced their belief that once they die, they will either go to Heaven or Hell. I've been a Christian for over 30 years, and yet I don't recall ever seeing anything in Scripture that discussed it in the Old Testament. There are references to Heaven, yes, but I can't find where it mentions their belief in going there once they die. Elijah went up in a whirlwind, and Enoch "walked with God". Also, Moses and Elijah were present at the Transfiguration in the New Testament. I seem to remember David saying something about there only being death in one of his Psalms. I sure would appreciate some insight on this.
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Bluetick
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PostSubject: Re: Old Testament Jews and Heaven   Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:24 pm

Looks like Rolltyde found one of the few existing pictures of Cage. Crackingup
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lmm
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PostSubject: Re: Old Testament Jews and Heaven   Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:15 pm

rolltyed wrote:
Thanks for the reply LMM. I didn't see anything that specifically referenced their belief that once they die, they will either go to Heaven or Hell. I've been a Christian for over 30 years, and yet I don't recall ever seeing anything in Scripture that discussed it in the Old Testament. There are references to Heaven, yes, but I can't find where it mentions their belief in going there once they die. Elijah went up in a whirlwind, and Enoch "walked with God". Also, Moses and Elijah were present at the Transfiguration in the New Testament. I seem to remember David saying something about there only being death in one of his Psalms. I sure would appreciate some insight on this.

My biblical knowledge is limited but i will see what i can find.

Love the avatar. Blue, isn't that your missing brother?
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Bluetick
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PostSubject: Re: Old Testament Jews and Heaven   Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:32 pm

Nah..my brother ain't near that good lookin. Very Happy
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Ubu
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PostSubject: Re: Old Testament Jews and Heaven   Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:48 pm

An interesting question and one that I admit I have thought about:

I found these references:

Job 14, Vs 7-15

For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;
Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.
But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

and Job 19, Vs 26

And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Psalms 16 Vs 9-11

Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Thou wilt show me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

Psalms 49 Vs 14-16

Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.
But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.

Psalms 73 Vs 23-26

Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory.
Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee.
My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.
Be not thou afraid when one is made rich, when the glory of his house is increased

Daniel 12 Vs 2

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Hosea 13 Vs 14

I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.


The brief research that I have done seems to indicate that the prevailing school of thought is that a believer could not go directly into the presence of God. Instead the went to dwell in Sheol. Not until Jesus ripped the gates of hell were believers admitted into the presence of God.

Again, a good question and obviously one that I do not have the answer for. I agree with LMM. One would have to be versed on the Torah before answer could possibly be arrived at. Let us not forget that the Bible as we know it, is a book for us gentiles.

Again with LMM, I am not a Biblical scholar. I am just hopeful that I can find some references to halp you resolve your question.
Very Happy

And I agree with Blue. That is about the best picture of Cage that I have ever seen
Very Happy
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lmm
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PostSubject: Re: Old Testament Jews and Heaven   Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:12 pm

Roll,
Here is a little more. i don't know if it is what your looking for. Sheol is similar to the Catholic purgatory. Or at least it seems that way.

Jewish Ideas Wiki

Soul resides in Sheol after death


The belief that the soul resides in a netherworld of Sheol (Hebrew: שאול) after death may be the oldest Jewish view on the matter. While the soul persists after death, it does so in a manner that is devoid of personality, knowledge, activity, or enjoyment.
Sources Edit Sources sectionEdit

As long as the soul was conceived to be merely a breath ("nefesh"; "neshamah"), and inseparably connected, if not identified, with the life-blood (Gen. ix. 4; Lev. xvii. 11), no real substance could be ascribed to it. As soon as the spirit or breath of God ("nishmat" or "ruaḥ ḥayyim"), which was believed to keep body and soul together, both in man and in beast (Gen. ii. 7, vi. 17, vii. 22; Job xxvii. 3), is taken away (Ps. cxlvi. 4) or returns to God (Eccl. xii. 7; Job xxxiv. 14), the soul goes down to Sheol or Hades, there to lead a shadowy existence without life and consciousness (Job xiv. 21; Ps. vi. 6, cxv. 17; Isa. xxxviii. 18; Eccl. ix. 5, 10).

The belief in a continuous life of the soul, which underlies primitive Ancestor Worship and the rites of necromancy, practiced also in ancient Israel (I Sam. xxviii. 13 et seq.; Isa. viii. 19), was discouraged and suppressed by prophet and lawgiver as antagonistic to the belief in YHWH, the God of life, the Ruler of heaven and earth, whose reign was not extended over Sheol until post-exilic times (Ps. xvi. 10, xlix. 16, cxxxix. Cool.

As a matter of fact, eternal life was ascribed exclusively to God and to celestial beings who "eat of the tree of life and live forever" (Gen. iii. 22), whereas man by being driven out of the Garden of Eden was deprived of the opportunity of eating the food of immortality. It is the Psalmist's implicit faith in God's omnipotence and omnipresence that leads him to the hope of immortality (Ps. xvi. 11, xvii. 15, xlix. 16, lxxiii. 24 et seq., cxvi. 6-9); whereas Job (xiv. 13 et seq., xix. 26) betrays only a desire for, not a real faith in, a life after death. Ben Sira (xiv. 12, xvii. 27 et seq., xxi. 10, xxviii. 21) still clings to the belief in Sheol as the destination of man. It was only in connection with the Messianic hope that, under the influence of Persian ideas, the belief in resurrection lent to the disembodied soul a continuous existence (Isa. xxv. 6-8; Dan. xii. 2).
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Joy
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PostSubject: Re: Old Testament Jews and Heaven   Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:47 pm

*ahem* I have waited OVER 24 hours for my man to introduce himself (I told y'all he won't mind me), but now feel duly obliged to out him. I do give him props for picking an excellent username, but he could have at least put his teeth in before snapping that picture. Giggle

Welcome to the Alabamian, rolltyde (my *cough* better half). Smile
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lmm
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PostSubject: Re: Old Testament Jews and Heaven   Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:01 am

Ahhh, now you have spoiled his fun. He can't spy on you any more. LOL

Hidee Mr Joy!!!

(he's gonna hate that!) LOL

Back to topic. Hubby confirms the Catholic link. FYI, I am married to a Catholic. Beaten well by nuns as a wee lad. I do not say that in another forum land because it causes tooooo much BS to come my way. No, I did not convert. I did pervert him. Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

LOL, I LOVE wine!!!!!!!
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Bluetick
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PostSubject: Re: Old Testament Jews and Heaven   Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:37 am

JOY JOY JOY.....Ubu and I had suspected such tom foolery on your part but you got us anyway. We suspected it was Kittyscat that was the plant. Welcome Mr. Joy. Ubu is pretty smart. He's the one that thought you might slip in your husband to yank our chains. Beside being sweet, kind, and understanding, smart, fun, and forgiving, you are devious too. We like that. Laughing Cuppa Please Rockon
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Joy
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PostSubject: Re: Old Testament Jews and Heaven   Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:51 am

I take no responsibility...this was all rolltyde's doing. He really wanted to remain incognito, but with all our forum issues of late, he graciously agreed for me to out him.
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lmm
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PostSubject: Re: Old Testament Jews and Heaven   Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:18 am

Enjoy roll.
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Ubu
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PostSubject: Re: Old Testament Jews and Heaven   Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:29 pm

Welcome Indeed........... Thumbup
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dogsoldier0513
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PostSubject: Re: Old Testament Jews and Heaven   Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:07 am

In my OT classes in college, we were taught that OT Jews believed that, upon dying (IF faithful to God), they went to Paradise to await the Judgement Day.
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