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unclegus
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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:39 pm

This is so funny! Ram has copied/pasted these remarks on the tvt forum. It is eating him up that he cannot post here. HaHaHa!
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DeepFat
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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:16 pm

lmm wrote:
Deep is in the house. Hide the chilrens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi DF, you cute little atheist.

Hi, LMM!

DF
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DeepFat
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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:20 pm

We experience immediate consequences of our sin while we live on earth, but we are saved from the final consequence, hell.

My dear Joy,

There is no Hell. Hell was a Hellenistic (no pun intended) concept that crept its way into Judeo/Christian mythology between the Septuagint and the New Testament. The Greek writers of the original books of the Gospels could not imagine a life system without it.

Some of us don't experience immediate consequences of sin. Bernie Madoff got away with it for years. I'm glad I'm not him, since every time I look in the mirror, a harsh man judges me for my actions.

DF
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lmm
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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:06 pm

You better have brought the rum this time, DF. Last time you forgot. Evil or Very Mad


Gus, ramm needs serious mental help. REALLY!
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DeepFat
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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:51 pm

lmm wrote:
I'll play devil's advocate!! Twisted Evil

Joy, you can hear deepfat telling you, that's just your conscience. No divine intervention needed. You knew what you were doing was wrong from the beginning, so you finally gave up the bad stuff. You have fooled yourself into believing that some outer force is controlling you. You are the only one that matters. No pixie dust.

(All those years at TD made me good at this!) Giggle

I can see my work is almost done.


DF[i]
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Purr
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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:32 pm

DeepFat wrote:
We experience immediate consequences of our sin while we live on earth, but we are saved from the final consequence, hell.

My dear Joy,

There is no Hell. Hell was a Hellenistic (no pun intended) concept that crept its way into Judeo/Christian mythology between the Septuagint and the New Testament. The Greek writers of the original books of the Gospels could not imagine a life system without it.

Some of us don't experience immediate consequences of sin. Bernie Madoff got away with it for years. I'm glad I'm not him, since every time I look in the mirror, a harsh man judges me for my actions.

DF

DF-- You know i believe in God, and life after the physical death of the current bodies our souls use as vehicles. BUT, i also don't believe in Hell. IMO, it was an invention of religious/politcal powers to control the masses, and keep their pockets full. They were bullies...."give us your lunch money or you'll get beat up....do what we say or the boogeyman will get you..."


e
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NashBama
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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:44 am

If there is no Hell, then there is no reason to be saved.

If no Hell exists, then there is no reason for Jesus to have been sent here and He died for nothing.

The common perception of Hell is a fiery pit that God throws you down into if you're bad. So you better live a good life or you'll suffer for eternity. But God loves you, right?

That's not accurate. Hell is an absence from God. Hell is being separated from Him and from anything good. Because we're all sinners, we're all separated from God, not because we're being punished but because we're not what we're supposed to be.

That's the core principle of Christianity. Christ died so that we can be reconnected with God. He's not trying to throw us into Hell so we can be punished, He's trying to bring us back to Him so we can be saved. That's why we say we're "saved" and not "rewarded". He is trying to rescue us despite us rejecting Him, and that's where we see that God does love us.
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NashBama
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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:09 am

I'm not saying that Hell isn't an awful place, it is. The reason it's so horrible is because it's a place separated from God and anything good.
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Joy
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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:25 pm

Excellent explanation, Nash...I agree.
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Ubu
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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:48 pm

JR.......Here's a little analogy that I keep handy that may help

A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the students, "Let me explain the problem science
has with religion." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.



"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely"

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm, can you answer that one?"



The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From God"

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywher e, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists,
and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality, hatred, ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. "Who created them?" There is still no
answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever f elt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of his own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, o bviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can
measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

What about dark ne ss, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word."

“In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes professor, my point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be
flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. "It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. This will be a very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has eve r o bserved the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?"

The class breaks out into laughter.


"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the
professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir. So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you'll have to take them on faith." "Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as
evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's
inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence
of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

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lmm
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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:50 am

Thanks Ubu, I love that.
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Purr
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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:33 am

lmm wrote:
Thanks Ubu, I love that.

same here.
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Purr
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Gemini

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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:38 am

I was given a copy of the following letter based on bible verses in an odd way several years ago, and yesterday stumbled upon it on a fb page. Thought it was worth sharing.....

My Child,

You may not know me,
but I know everything about you.
Psalm 139:1
I know when you sit down and when you rise up.
Psalm 139:2
I am familiar with all your ways.
Psalm 139:3
Even the very hairs on your head are numbered.
Matthew 10:29-31
For you were made in my image.
Genesis 1:27
In me you live and move and have your being.
Acts 17:28
For you are my offspring.
Acts 17:28
I knew you even before you were conceived.
Jeremiah 1:4-5
I chose you when I planned creation.
Ephesians 1:11-12
You were not a mistake,
for all your days are written in my book.
Psalm 139:15-16
I determined the exact time of your birth
and where you would live.
Acts 17:26
You are fearfully and wonderfully made.
Psalm 139:14
I knit you together in your mother's womb.
Psalm 139:13
And brought you forth on the day you were born.
Psalm 71:6
I have been misrepresented
by those who don't know me.
John 8:41-44
I am not distant and angry,
but am the complete expression of love.
1 John 4:16
And it is my desire to lavish my love on you.
1 John 3:1
Simply because you are my child
and I am your Father.
1 John 3:1
I offer you more than your earthly father ever could.
Matthew 7:11
For I am the perfect father.
Matthew 5:48
Every good gift that you receive comes from my hand.
James 1:17
For I am your provider and I meet all your needs.
Matthew 6:31-33
My plan for your future has always been filled with hope.
Jeremiah 29:11
Because I love you with an everlasting love.
Jeremiah 31:3
My thoughts toward you are countless
as the sand on the seashore.
Psalms 139:17-18
And I rejoice over you with singing.
Zephaniah 3:17
I will never stop doing good to you.
Jeremiah 32:40
For you are my treasured possession.
Exodus 19:5
I desire to establish you
with all my heart and all my soul.
Jeremiah 32:41
And I want to show you great and marvelous things.
Jeremiah 33:3
If you seek me with all your heart,
you will find me.
Deuteronomy 4:29
Delight in me and I will give you
the desires of your heart.
Psalm 37:4
For it is I who gave you those desires.
Philippians 2:13
I am able to do more for you
than you could possibly imagine.
Ephesians 3:20
For I am your greatest encourager.
2 Thessalonians 2:16-17
I am also the Father who comforts you
in all your troubles.
2 Corinthians 1:3-4
When you are brokenhearted,
I am close to you.
Psalm 34:18
As a shepherd carries a lamb,
I have carried you close to my heart.
Isaiah 40:11
One day I will wipe away
every tear from your eyes.
Revelation 21:3-4
And I'll take away all the pain
you have suffered on this earth.
Revelation 21:3-4
I am your Father, and I love you
even as I love my son, Jesus.
John 17:23
For in Jesus, my love for you is revealed.
John 17:26
He is the exact representation of my being.
Hebrews 1:3
He came to demonstrate that I am for you,
not against you.
Romans 8:31
And to tell you that I am not counting your sins.
2 Corinthians 5:18-19
Jesus died so that you and I could be reconciled.
2 Corinthians 5:18-19
His death was the ultimate expression
of my love for you.
1 John 4:10
I gave up everything I loved
that I might gain your love.
Romans 8:31-32
If you receive the gift of my son Jesus,
you receive me.
1 John 2:23
And nothing will ever separate you
from my love again.
Romans 8:38-39
Come home and I'll throw the biggest party
heaven has ever seen.
Luke 15:7
I have always been Father,
and will always be Father.
Ephesians 3:14-15
My question is…
Will you be my child?
John 1:12-13
I am waiting for you.
Luke 15:11-32

Love, Your Dad
Almighty God

written by Barry Adams
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BroBama
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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:30 pm

DeepFat wrote:
We experience immediate consequences of our sin while we live on earth, but we are saved from the final consequence, hell.

My dear Joy,

There is no Hell. Hell was a Hellenistic (no pun intended) concept that crept its way into Judeo/Christian mythology between the Septuagint and the New Testament. The Greek writers of the original books of the Gospels could not imagine a life system without it.

Some of us don't experience immediate consequences of sin. Bernie Madoff got away with it for years. I'm glad I'm not him, since every time I look in the mirror, a harsh man judges me for my actions.

DF

Deepfat do you believe in God and Jesus?
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Bluetick
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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:30 pm

BroBama wrote:
DeepFat wrote:
We experience immediate consequences of our sin while we live on earth, but we are saved from the final consequence, hell.

My dear Joy,

There is no Hell. Hell was a Hellenistic (no pun intended) concept that crept its way into Judeo/Christian mythology between the Septuagint and the New Testament. The Greek writers of the original books of the Gospels could not imagine a life system without it.

Some of us don't experience immediate consequences of sin. Bernie Madoff got away with it for years. I'm glad I'm not him, since every time I look in the mirror, a harsh man judges me for my actions.

DF

Deepfat do you believe in God and Jesus?




Bro, you ain't from around here are you. Giggle
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Ubu
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Pisces

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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:16 am

happy happy happy
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Dino
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PostSubject: Re: How do you know?   Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:22 am

Ubu and Joy: thank you for sharing the posts regarding faith on the previous page.
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