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The Propagandist
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PostSubject: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:24 pm

Last gasp of the GOP?



2012 or Never
Republicans are worried this election could be their last chance to stop history.

Quote :
"The deepest effect of Obama’s election upon the Republicans’ psyche has been to make them truly fear, for the first time since before Ronald Reagan, that the future is against them."

The GOP has reason to be scared. Obama’s election was the vindication of a prediction made several years before by journalist John Judis and political scientist Ruy Teixeira in their 2002 book, The Emerging Democratic Majority. Despite the fact that George W. Bush then occupied the White House, Judis and Teixeira argued that demographic and political trends were converging in such a way as to form a majority coalition for Democrats.

The Republican Party had increasingly found itself confined to white voters, especially those lacking a college degree and rural whites who, as Obama awkwardly put it in 2008, tend to “cling to guns or religion.” Meanwhile, the Democrats had ­increased their standing among whites with graduate degrees, particularly the growing share of secular whites, and remained dominant among racial minorities. As a whole, Judis and Teixeira noted, the electorate was growing both somewhat better educated and dramatically less white, making every successive election less favorable for the GOP.

One measure of how thoroughly the electorate had changed by the time of Obama’s election was that, if college-­educated whites, working-class whites, and minorities had cast the same proportion of the votes in 1988 as they did in 2008, Michael Dukakis would have, just barely, won. By 2020—just eight years away—nonwhite voters should rise from a quarter of the 2008 electorate to one third. In 30 years, nonwhites will outnumber whites.

As conservative strategists will tell you, there are now more of “them” than “us.”
What’s more, the disparity will continue to grow indefinitely. Obama actually lost the over-45-year-old vote in 2008, gaining his entire victory margin from younger voters—more racially diverse, better educated, less religious, and more socially and economically liberal.

Portents of this future were surely rendered all the more vivid by the startling reality that the man presiding over the new majority just happened to be, himself, young, urban, hip, and black. When jubilant supporters of Obama gathered in Grant Park on Election Night in 2008, Republicans saw a glimpse of their own political mortality. And a galvanizing picture of just what their new rulers would look like.

Following Obama’s win, all sorts of loose talk concerning the Republican predicament filled the air. How would the party recast itself? Where would it move left, how would it find common ground with Obama, what new constituencies would it court?

The most widely agreed-upon component of any such undertaking was a concerted effort to win back the Hispanic vote. It seemed like a pure political no-brainer, a vital outreach to an exploding electoral segment that could conceivably be weaned from its Democratic leanings, as had previous generations of Irish and Italian immigrants, without altering the party’s general right wing thrust on other issues.

Instead, incredibly, the party adopted a more hawkish position, with Republicans in Congress rejecting even quarter-loaf compromises like the Dream Act and state-level officials like Jan Brewer launching new restrictionist crusades. This was, as Thomas Edsall writes in The Age of Austerity, “a major gamble that the GOP can continue to win as a white party despite the growing strength of the minority vote.”

Voter ID laws: A life-preserver cobbled together by a drowning party
None of this is to say that Republicans ignored the rising tide of younger and browner voters that swamped them at the polls in 2008. Instead they set about keeping as many of them from the polls as possible. The bulk of the campaign has taken the form of throwing up an endless series of tedious bureaucratic impediments to voting in many states—ending same-day voter registration, imposing onerous requirements upon voter-registration drives, and upon voters themselves. “Voting liberal, that’s what kids do,” overshared William O’Brien, the New Hampshire House speaker, who had supported a bill to prohibit college students from voting from their school addresses.

What can these desperate, rearguard tactics accomplish? They can make the electorate a bit older, whiter, and less poor. They can, perhaps, buy the Republicans some time.

Quote :
Enter: The Party of NO!

On January 20, 2009 Republican Leaders in Congress
literally plotted to sabotage and undermine U.S. Economy
during President Obama's Inauguration.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/08/1098434/-Eric-Cantor-Paul-Ryan-Kevin-McCarthy-Plot-To-Sabotage-US-Economy-with-Frank-Luntz

During the last midterm elections, the strategy succeeded brilliantly. Republicans moved further right and won a gigantic victory. On the other hand, if they lose their bid to unseat Obama, they will have mortgaged their future for nothing at all. And over the last several months, it has appeared increasingly likely that the party’s great all-or-nothing bet may land, ultimately, on nothing. In which case, the Republicans will have turned an unfavorable outlook into a truly bleak one in a fit of panic. The deepest effect of Obama’s election upon the Republicans’ psyche has been to make them truly fear, for the first time since before Ronald Reagan, that the future is against them.

http://nymag.com/news/features/gop-primary-chait-2012-3/
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:40 pm

Fear the future is against them? Nice way to work racism, God, guns, white and conservative all into one post.

Good job.

As for a voter ID, what is the fricking big deal? I have always shown an ID to vote. It proves who I am. If I have to have an ID to buy alcohol, sign up for college classes, or drive a car; then I think asking for one when you vote on future leaders of the country seems trivial.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:26 am

Yeah, I gotta admit if I have to show ID to open up a freaking bank account with $200.00 that I don't understand what the big deal is to show an ID to vote for the election of the "most powerful man in the world".............just sayin'
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:09 am

Ubu wrote:
Yeah, I gotta admit if I have to show ID to open up a freaking bank account with $200.00 that I don't understand what the big deal is to show an ID to vote for the election of the "most powerful man in the world".............just sayin'
Or buy a car, or use a debit card, etc...The entire world wants to verify who we are and yet the idea of voter ID is a bad thing? Why would that even be a partisan issue? Do the democrats think they will lose votes because people need an ID? Are they betting the future of politics on illegals?
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:20 am

lmm wrote:
Ubu wrote:
Yeah, I gotta admit if I have to show ID to open up a freaking bank account with $200.00 that I don't understand what the big deal is to show an ID to vote for the election of the "most powerful man in the world".............just sayin'
Or buy a car, or use a debit card, etc...The entire world wants to verify who we are and yet the idea of voter ID is a bad thing? Why would that even be a partisan issue? Do the democrats think they will lose votes because people need an ID? Are they betting the future of politics on illegals?


Naaaaaaa........On Sync and her "multiples"............


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PostSubject: Voter ID: Suppression the goal   Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:04 pm

Republicans look for help from Voter ID laws to win 2012 elections
http://www.examiner.com/article/republicans-look-to-voter-id-laws-win-2012-elections

South Carolina GOP operative admits suppressing black vote is goal of voter ID law
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/19/1028056/-South-Carolina-GOP-operative-admits-suppressing-black-vote-is-goal-of-voter-ID-law
S.C. GOP Operative: AP Story Showing Impact Of Voter ID On Blacks ‘Proves EXACTLY’ Why Law Is Needed
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/sc_gop_operative_ap_story_showing_impact_of_voter_id_on_blacks_proves_exactly_why_law_is_needed.php?ref=fpblg

Columnist: Registering Poor To Vote ‘Like Handing Out Burglary Tools To Criminals’
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/09/columnist_registering_poor_to_vote_like_handing_out_burglary_tools_to_criminals.php
original:
Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/09/registering_the_poor_to_vote_is_un-american.html

Voter ID Laws and Blocking Access to the Ballot: New Tools, Old Tricks
http://www.civilrights.org/monitor/winter-2012/voter-id-laws-and-blocking.html

Suppressing voter drives goal of bill
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20120226/PC1602/302269981


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PostSubject: ID Nation   Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:41 pm

Why oppose Voter ID? For the same reason one should oppose needless spying by the authorities. Some say, “If you have nothing to fear if you haven’t done anything wrong.” It is precisely because one hasn’t done anything wrong that ubiquitous spying is cause for fear.

Requiring identification piecemeal is like the proverbial frog in water: We are slowly being conditioned to be required to present identification whenever we leave the house to do anything.

"I have to show ID to do this. I have to show ID to do that. What's wrong with having to show ID to vote?"

Just because others require you to, and you consent to it, doesn't make it moral or constitutional.

Alabama should have a slogan "Your driver license: It's not just for driving anymore." Sort of like your Social Security Number being used as an identifier.

We are being conditioned to be required to show ID for a myriad of things, like the proverbial frog in water. Others may not see it, but there may come a time when ID is required for you to go, to have, to do -- or even to be.

With Border Patrol checkpoints moving ever farther into the country from the actual border, Americans traveling from one American town to another are increasingly have to prove, not only their identity, not just their need to travel and the purpose of their trip, but the right to travel.

Quote :
The Borders Are Closing In
Every invasion of individual rights happens with the eager support of people acting in the sincere and thoroughly mistaken confidence that what they permit the state to do to others will never be done to them.


An ill omen: This billboard was photographed in Arizona by libertarian activist Ernest Hancock

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2010/04/borders-are-closing-in.html


Alabama’s Immigration Law
Now, in Alabama, if the driver of a vehicle is stopped for any reason, in addition to the driver being asked to produce his driver license, every passenger in the car can be required to produce identification. No more nonchalantly hopping in the car with a friend to ride to the corner store in swimming trunks. You have to take your driver license even though you aren’t driving. Remember, you have to satisfy the ID Nation. You must be able to identify yourself at all times. If you can’t, you could be an illegal immigrant and taken to jail to have your citizenship and immigration status verified. In fact, without identification, you are presumed to be an illegal until you are verified. Imagine that: Swept off the streets at will for lack of a paper or a card.


Quote :
HB 56, as revised by HB 658

§31-13-12 (a).
“… to determine the citizenship and immigration status of the person …”
to ensure the vehicle is not transporting illegal immigrants.

The officer has no discretion in the matter.
§31-13-12 (c)
“A law enforcement officer shall not attempt to independently make a final determination of whether an alien is lawfully present in the United States.”

Anybody can be an alien. In fact, everybody is an alien, unless

§31-13-12 (d) A person is presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States if the person provides to the law enforcement officer any of the following:
(following is seven forms of acceptable identification)
If you have no identification, then it is conversely presumed that you are an illegal alien, and you go to jail to have you citizenship and/or immigration status verified.

HB 658: to make revisions to the Beason-Hammon Alabama Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act.
§31-13-12.
p.37
http://media.al.com/bn/other/House%20Bill%20658.pdf

HB 658 signed by Gov. Bentley May 18, 2012.
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2012/05/bentley_signs_immigration_law.html

Quote :
NYT EDITORIAL
Alabama’s Disgrace
Published: May 15, 2012

Alabamians should see on Wednesday, the last day of the legislative session, just how badly the Republicans who control the Statehouse want to continue down the path of anti-immigrant extremism.

The lawmakers’ challenge was to fix last year’s terrible immigration law, House Bill 56, which turned state and local police officers into papers-checking immigration agents and imposed a grab bag of criminal punishments and deterrents on undocumented immigrants and on businesses and charitable organizations that help or hire them. The only real solution is the full repeal of the law, but bills to do that have died.

Republican leaders have said they want to make the law more “efficient,” but have vowed not to weaken it.

It may be that only the courts can rescue Alabama from itself. Some parts of the current law are temporarily on hold awaiting the outcome of a federal lawsuit, including the requirement that schools collect students’ immigration data and sections criminalizing “business transactions” by the undocumented and nullifying contracts they enter. But other sections are still in force, including the one directing police to check the papers of those they stop.

House Bill 658 preserves the malign intent of the earlier law and makes some of its provisions worse. It expands the “papers, please” requirement to target passengers in a stopped car as well as the driver. It doubles, to 48 hours, the time someone can be jailed while awaiting an immigration check. It increases jail time and fines for newly created — and surely unconstitutional — state immigration crimes. It does nothing meaningful to shield from prosecution those who “harbor” or “transport” immigrants for religious or humanitarian reasons. As for the expense of litigation, the harm to public safety as crime victims avoid the police, and the misery inflicted on the working poor — all of those ill-effects seem quite intact.

The Supreme Court recently heard oral arguments on the constitutionality of Arizona’s immigration law, whose noxious spirit and letter Alabama has copied. A ruling in that case is expected in June, and could unleash more Arizona-style damage in other states. Meanwhile, the two Republican architects of Alabama’s immigration law, Micky Hammon in the House and Scott Beason in the Senate, are pressing on. And The Associated Press reported this month that Alabama farmers are planting less and shifting to mechanized crops as the reality of an immigrant labor shortage — the high price of xenophobia — sinks in.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/16/opinion/alabamas-disgrace.html

Quote :
Proposed immigration law changes clarify, expand HB56
The current law allows police, during a traffic stop, detainment or arrest, to attempt to determine a person’s citizenship status if they have a “reasonable suspicion” that a person is in the country illegally. The new bill, HB658, would require those checks to be made after a traffic citation is issued or after an arrest, and for “reasonable suspicion” to extend beyond the driver, to the other passengers in the vehicle.
http://weldbham.com/secondfront/2012/04/05/proposed-immigration-law-changes-clarify-expand-hb56/

Quote :
Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley should have vetoed immigration law revision
By Birmingham News editorial board

Gov. Robert Bentley didn't like the immigration bill the Legislature passed this week.

But instead of vetoing the bill, Bentley put into the call for the special session on redistricting "changes and amendments to Alabama's immigration laws .¤.¤."
Notice the governor's call says "immigration laws." That's because both last year and this year, the Legislature spent considerable time and effort writing and enacting the most overreaching, harsh immigration laws in the nation.

Last year's HB 56 gave the state's reputation a terrible black eye. This year's HB 658, the rewrite and revision, delivered another black eye and kick to the ribs for good measure.
...
It's hard to see how Alabama's immigration law does anything toward promoting economic growth, at least economic growth in Alabama. HB 56 and its evil brother HB 658 give economic recruiters in other states all the ammunition they need to keep industries and businesses from locating in Alabama. They present Alabama as a closed, intolerant, unwelcoming state.

Bentley could have vetoed HB 658 and called for repeal of HB 56. All Alabama needs is E-Verify to make sure workers are eligible to hold jobs.
But Bentley missed another chance to do right, and Alabama will continue to pay the price.

http://blog.al.com/birmingham-news-commentary/2012/05/our_view_alabama_gov_robert_be.html
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:00 am

Ubu wrote:
lmm wrote:
Ubu wrote:
Yeah, I gotta admit if I have to show ID to open up a freaking bank account with $200.00 that I don't understand what the big deal is to show an ID to vote for the election of the "most powerful man in the world".............just sayin'
Or buy a car, or use a debit card, etc...The entire world wants to verify who we are and yet the idea of voter ID is a bad thing? Why would that even be a partisan issue? Do the democrats think they will lose votes because people need an ID? Are they betting the future of politics on illegals?


Naaaaaaa........On Sync and her "multiples"............


Crackingup Crackingup Crackingup Crackingup

Hey!!! We all have ids Giggle
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PostSubject: Driver license is not an identification card   Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:43 am

Driving is a privilege. Your driver license is evidence that you qualify for the privilege. In that way, a driver license is like a business license. A driver license is NOT an identification card despite the fact that many use it as such. If you do desire to have a state-issued identification card, there is one available. However, it does state on its face that it is for identification, not for operating a motor vehicle. That is evidence that a driver license is not an identification card.

However, the State has bought into this idea that evidence of the privilege to drive can serve as identification.
Quote :
About ID Cards
Identification cards are issued to people who are either unqualified to drive or choose not to drive. They are not issued to current holders of an Alabama driver's license.
The process for applying for an Alabama ID card is much the same as applying for a driver's license. The only difference is that no testing is required.

http://www.dmv.org/al-alabama/id-cards.php

Quote :
A driver's license as national ID?
New national standards for drivers licenses have some privacy advocates worried.

By Susan Llewelyn Leach, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor / January 24, 2005

It's already used as the ID of choice through out most of the United States.To write a check, open a video-store account, or board a plane, you must flash your driver's license.

And now that small card tucked in your wallet is about to get more sophisticated. A piece of the new National Intelligence Reform Act signed into law last week requires national standards for state licenses.

It's another ripple from 9/11, when seven of the hijackers used fake driver's licenses to board the planes.

The standards, to be hammered out over the next 18 months by state and federal officials along with technology specialists and "interested parties," are raising concerns among privacy experts who see the move as the first step down the road to a national ID or centralized information on individuals.

It's a development - described by one congresswoman as "radioactive " - that has long been opposed by privacy advocates in the public and government alike.

What several analysts question is why this standardizing IDs makes us more secure?
...
"The same people who are forging state-issued driver's licenses today will be forging federalized driver's licenses after this provision goes into effect," says Gregory Nojeim, of the ACLU's Washington Legislative office. "The price will go up, but the incentive to make the forgery will go up as well."

Nor is the lack of a centralized database any comfort, Mr. Nojeim says. "The privacy-invasive effect of a centralized database can be accomplished by standardization of the identity document, because it becomes interoperable."

It's that bigger picture that alarms Solove and others - what he calls the first step in a "your papers, please" society.

Information tends to spread beyond its original purpose, Solove says. "It's a rule that works as well as gravity ... whenever the government gets information, it invariably uses it for new purposes in the future."


He gives the example of the government's requirement to fingerprint everyone in the armed services. The stated purpose was to help identify remains. "Then at some point the FBI asked to have all those fingerprints added into their fingerprint database" - where the criminals are, he says.

World Privacy Forum's Ms. Dixon adds, "I always get very nervous when someone builds a technology and then decides how to use it later."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0124/p11s02-ussc.html


Quote :
Identity documents in the United States
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is no true national identity card in the United States of America, in the sense that there is no federal agency with nationwide jurisdiction that directly issues such cards to all American citizens for mandatory regular use. All legislative attempts to create one have failed due to tenacious opposition from liberal and conservative politicians alike, who regard the national identity card as the mark of a totalitarian society.[1]
...
Social Security card
This document is usually issued by the Social Security Administration upon the request of a baby's parents. The parents customarily file such a request soon after birth to ensure issuance of a Social Security number (sometimes referred to as SSN, SS#, or simply social). Then the parents can report the baby to the Internal Revenue Service as a dependent, which will reduce the amount of federal income tax they have to pay.

The SSN was originally intended to ensure accurate reporting of payroll contributions so that an employee's Social Security benefits could be adjusted accordingly, and then the employee could claim their benefits upon retirement. Because their original purpose was so limited, Social Security cards were not designed with the rigorous security measures normally expected of identity documents. They did not (and still do not) have a photograph of the bearer or a physical description.


SSN Card with Not For Identification Purposes tagline

In the absence of a national identity card, the Social Security number has become the de facto national identifier for tax and credit purposes.

Driver's license
Due to its commonality, the de facto official identification card for adults in all states and territories is the driver's license, which must be carried at all times when operating a vehicle in most states, and in most states presented to law enforcement officers upon request (while one is driving the vehicle). Driver licensing authorities also make photo based identification cards available for those who do not have driver's licenses.
...
Although most American adults carry their driver's license at all times when they are outside their homes, there is no legal requirement that they must be carrying their license when not operating a vehicle. However, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that states are permitted to require people to say their name when a police officer asks them (see Stop and Identify statutes). Furthermore, in some states, like California, failure to produce an identification document upon citation for any traffic infraction (such as riding a bicycle on the wrong side of a street) is sufficient justification for full custodial arrest.[7]

In 2005, the U.S. Congress passed a controversial bill known as the REAL ID Act that will transform the state-issued driver's license into what many contend will be a de facto national identification card (though still not a true one since it will still be issued by the state governments and not the federal government). The transformation will be carried out by giving the Department of Homeland Security the power to regulate the design and content of all state driver's licenses, and to require that all of the underlying state databases be linked into a single national database. However, not all U.S citizens drive a car. Critics charge that DHS will be given carte blanche to dictate the content of driver's licenses and to directly manage information about all Americans.
...
In the absence of a national identity card, the typical adult in the United States often carries a large number of documents issued by many different public and private entities.

The U.S. Federal government issues the following types of identity documents:
(list follows)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_documents_in_the_United_States#Driver.27s_license

Quote :
U.S. unveils national I.D. plan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uO8WWZ_9KA&feature=related

Quote :
RFID CHIP & NATIONAL ID
Ron Paul on Fox News
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz1I0UBRUK0&feature=related

Quote :
REAL ID CARD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FwWpelV6Ic&feature=related

Quote :
Electronic Chip in the New U.S. Passport
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWHI03RPpuI&feature=related

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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:02 am

Obsessed much?

My son has an Alabama ID card because he does not drive. If you have to have a SS number at birth, literally, then why quibble over an ID?

Tell me why liberals think having an ID is some kind of Nazi plot? How does not having one increase the voting ranks for the liberals? Are you saying that only illegal low life scumbags vote democrat? Do you really want that to be a rallying point for your side?

The ID cost $23 bucks and is good for eight years. You have to provide your birth certificate and three other means of identification. The same as you do for a driver's license. The only difference at all is not taking a driver's test. So how does a driver's license differ from a state ID? None at all.

Even the 'poor and downtrodden, the black, the scumbags who vote democrat' can come up with that amount. LOL

Sounds like desperation is hitting before November.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:06 am

Footnote:

Locally, if you show up without ID, you can provide your water bill, utility bill or some other form of ID to prove who you are. If you still don't have anything, you can ask for a provisional ballot, which you still vote but it will be checked later for verification. If you want to vote, you can vote. Unless you are dead, illegal or a serial killer. Sorry about that.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:31 pm

I believe the issue some of us have is the intrusion of government into our lives. I f we allow a piece here and a piece there, soon we will have given all. How about a national DNA bank, or maybe a tracking implant for every citizen. It would certainly have helped Stalin and Hitler.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:43 pm

Bluetick wrote:
I believe the issue some of us have is the intrusion of government into our lives. I f we allow a piece here and a piece there, soon we will have given all. How about a national DNA bank, or maybe a tracking implant for every citizen. It would certainly have helped Stalin and Hitler.


Sheriff Confirms Real ID Drivers License Photos Used For Face Recognition. Traffic Cams Next?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjrG5Ex5qZo

Why the Mythbusters won't do RFID
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X034R3yzDhw&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL92FD2C221F8EB8F3

No Verichip For Me Thanks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW_PImimbxI&feature=related

RFID Chip Kills you if you disobey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCVVUuvXOoc&feature=related

"Every invasion of individual rights happens with the eager support of people acting in the sincere and thoroughly mistaken confidence that what they permit the state to do to others will never be done to them."
--William N. Grigg
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:56 pm

It's usually the poor, the college students, young voters, and the old poor who don't have those ids, and often little or no way to get them. What do you see in common with those groups? The issue is why this is pushed so hard and when. Eliminate enough Democratic voters and you have the election.


Last edited by Synchronicity on Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:47 am

I have been a little confused by this issue (and honestly haven't looked into it) because I have had to show my ID every time I have voted in the past 26 years. Do other states not require an ID when a person votes? I guess I hoped it was much ado about nothing. If some states do not require ID...we should be more than a little disturbed that illegals having been voting for some time. If all states do require ID...to be honest, if I were here illegally, I'd steer clear of anywhere that might ask for ID.

*sigh* I really don't have time to look into it. Can't errbody just being-have? Rolling Eyes Giggle
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:54 am

On the surface it really isn't a big deal. I show my license and don't think anything of it. Funny how when FL governor got all worked up about illegals voting and sent long lists of voters to be purged from the rolls, the local people checked and these were almost all Democrats and last I heard maybe one wasn't really qualified to vote, and that didn't involve any fraud. The people in charge locally (who were often Republicans, so it isn't a Democratic plot) started checking and came to the same conclusion.

If you look a bit deeper, though, there isn't a boatload of fraud around the country...hardly any...and the changes in id requirements hit the Democratic voters in a vastly disproportionate amount. Those who think scads of illegals are lining up to vote aren't local polling people who know who shows up. This comes from higher up and has nothing to do with the average Republican and is tailored to make it sound as if illegals are lining up all over so it will sound logical...can't have illegals voting. But the reality is that the people who get eliminated are those who simply don't have an id and either can't afford one or get to someone to get one. Doing this before a major election when paperwork can take a long time isn't the way it's supposed to be done if you change voter laws to require more id and nothing else will do (like the bills or whatever).

This is a manufactured crisis (voter fraud) to justify stricter voting requirements (someone who can't afford the id they require is basically eliminated from the voting pool, as are disabled and home-bound people), and since college ids won't be accepted any more some college students, too). Also, making it so scary to register voters in some states (interestingly enough, those states that matter if more Democrats are registered) cuts another often-Democratic pool of voters, cutting unions' ability to register voters, and attempting to stop same day registration all lead to one result. It's a great way to affect elections whether you win on the issues or not.

And no, it isn't that anyone is trying to get out of being a legitimate voter or get illegals to vote, although you would think there is wide-spread fraud and lines of illegals around the block. I would like to get along too...all of a sudden many people who have voted for years can't vote, and new voters can't get registered. That should be a scary situation for us all despite what party happens to appeal to us personally.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:05 am

Joy, there are several states that have no ID required, non photo required or photo required.
You can look at the map at the top of this page.
http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id.aspx

Synch, disabled and homebound people can get absentee ballots. You can register to vote online even in Alabama. Takes about 5 minutes and your voting info is mailed to you by postcard. If you happen to get a new pistol permit, it is now a photo ID and is legal to use for voting. It cost $10.



Being able to vote and take part in the forming of the government should be considered an honor reserved for those people born in the US or naturalized here who want to actually take part and believe in the ideals of the Founding Fathers. You lose that honor when convicted of a felony, you lose that honor when you give up your US citizenship, and you should never be given that honor when you are not part of the US.

If we don't need voter ID to take part in the greatest freedom we have, why have any ID at all? Let the 12 year olds buy beer, let the 8 year old drive the car, have your 5 year old sign your house papers. Since it seems that we have become a nation of politically correct instead of morally or legally correct, why not? Have someone babysit your kid that you took off the street. He says he's a good man, you trust him, don't you? Would he lie?

Many countries are still ruled by oppression, strife and fear. Those people are literally dieing trying to get the right to do something we take for granted. A lot of our own ancestors died for the right as well. If being able to vote legally and with pride and honor has now become a partisan issue, then the Foundling Fathers' spirits are probably smacking themselves in the head and wishing they had never started the whole idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:24 am

In Alabama you can vote with:

A. Current, Valid Photo Identification

Government-issued photo identifications (current and valid)
Employee identification for employee with photo of employee produced by the employer
Photo identification card issued by Alabama college or university
Photo identification issued from Alabama technical or professional school (current and valid)

OR

B. One of the following

Utility bill of voter with voter's name and address
Bank statement with voter's name and address
Government check with voter's name and address
Paycheck with voter's name and address
Valid identification card (authorized by law) issued by the State of Alabama (including any branch, department, agency, or entity of the State of Alabama)
Valid identification card (authorized by law) issued by any of the other 49 states (including any branch, department, agency, or entity of that State)
Valid identification card (authorized by law) issued by the government of the United States of America (including any branch, department, agency, or entity of the federal government
Valid United States passport
Valid Alabama hunting license
Valid Alabama fishing license
Valid Alabama pistol/revolver permit
Valid pilot's license issued by the FAA or other authorized agency of the federal government
Valid United States military identification
Birth certificate (certified copy)
Valid Social Security card
Naturalization document (certified copy)
Court record of adoption (certified copy)
Court record of name change (certified copy)
Valid Medicaid card
Valid Medicare card
Valid electronic benefits transfer (EBT) card
Government document that shows the name and address of the voter


That should cover everybody; poor, college kids, old people, young people, and every one over the age of 18. Really hard to vote in this state, isn't it?
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:08 am

Just to be clear, I wasn't just talking about AL Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:29 pm

lmm wrote:
Joy, there are several states that have no ID required, non photo required or photo required.
You can look at the map at the top of this page.
http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id.aspx

Synch, disabled and homebound people can get absentee ballots. You can register to vote online even in Alabama. Takes about 5 minutes and your voting info is mailed to you by postcard. If you happen to get a new pistol permit, it is now a photo ID and is legal to use for voting. It cost $10.



Being able to vote and take part in the forming of the government should be considered an honor reserved for those people born in the US or naturalized here who want to actually take part and believe in the ideals of the Founding Fathers. You lose that honor when convicted of a felony, you lose that honor when you give up your US citizenship, and you should never be given that honor when you are not part of the US.

If we don't need voter ID to take part in the greatest freedom we have, why have any ID at all? Let the 12 year olds buy beer, let the 8 year old drive the car, have your 5 year old sign your house papers. Since it seems that we have become a nation of politically correct instead of morally or legally correct, why not? Have someone babysit your kid that you took off the street. He says he's a good man, you trust him, don't you? Would he lie?

Many countries are still ruled by oppression, strife and fear. Those people are literally dieing trying to get the right to do something we take for granted. A lot of our own ancestors died for the right as well. If being able to vote legally and with pride and honor has now become a partisan issue, then the Foundling Fathers' spirits are probably smacking themselves in the head and wishing they had never started the whole idea.

Sure, it's easy to register to vote. But you have additional hoops to jump through to actually cast your ballot. And we all know it is at the voter booth, not the registrar's office, that elections are won.

Joy states that she has had to show her ID every time she voted for the past 26 years. I have been voting for 38 years, and I have never had to show a photo ID. I do, however, have a non-photo "Voter Registration I.D. Card" that was mailed to me on Dec. 05, 2007. I have shown that at the polling place when signing in, though I have not been specifically asked to do so. Nor have I been asked to show any other kind of ID, photo or otherwise. None of the poll workers personally know me in order to know without a doubt that I am the one signing in and not committing voter fraud, either.

Going back to that old saw about "I need ID to drive" is a mistaken image of what a driver license actually authorizes you to do. A driver license is not identification, though as a secondary purpose it can be used as such and frequently is. A driver license is simply evidence that you have fulfilled all of the state's requirements to exercise the privilege of driving a vehicle on the public roads -- nothing more. If others choose to assign a secondary purpose for it, and you choose to acquiesce in using it for that purpose also, that is your personal business.

As far as the need for ID being explained by "Let the 12 year olds buy beer, let the 8 year old drive the car, have your 5 year old sign your house papers" as also being an a priori justification for erecting other new, additional requirements before someone can vote is just plain silly. A driver license is not a license to buy beer, a license to sign legal documents, or to do anything -- except drive.

If a 96-year-old woman in Tennessee, who has already been voting for over 70 years, can be denied the one thing she needs to vote,
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_10/meet_dorothy_cooper032647.php
what other new, additional requirements will be erected next time around -- should this time prove insufficient in preventing enough (supposedly Democratic-leaning) people from voting?

And it's been shown by a preponderance of the evidence that this is exactly what Republicans had in mind when unveiling their "solution in search of a problem." Any other argument or justification is just a made-up fairy tale meant to fool the gullible.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:37 pm

This state says that a driver's license is legal ID to vote, drive, write a check, use a debit card or sign legal papers. Most of the states that require any form of ID also let anyone who doesn't have it to vote a provisional ballot. Big whoop on restrictions.
As for dear old Dorothy, she got her FREE photo ID after about two weeks. She was denied originally because her paper work had different names listed, not because the sweety was BLACK.

So keep on propaganding, it's what you do best. Those poor old democrats should try reading the rules.

You have yet to tell me why voter ID hampers only the democrats. The democrats are the only ones who are poor, illegal, college students, have gray hair, and have committed felonies? Wow, I never would have guessed.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:18 pm

lmm wrote:
As for dear old Dorothy, she got her FREE photo ID after about two weeks.

Only after the media called attention to the deplorable state of things.

I remember just a few years ago there were public service announcements on TV about the importance of registering to vote. Only after Republicans all over the country became proud recipients of "government in a box" of model draft bills from the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), including all those immigration laws and voter ID laws, did anybody who had a right to vote have much of a problem.

I don't see any well-to-do white suburbanites complaining about roadblocks thrown in their way. No, they are all the young, the students, the minorities, and the elderly who are finding a hard time trying to vote. A lot of research by went into this by ALEC and other conservative think tanks on exactly who to target with what to block the Democratic voter in trying to vote.

See:
Quote :
ALEC Exposed: Rigging Elections
http://www.thenation.com/article/161969/rigging-elections

Quote :
ALEC is not a lobby; it is not a front group. It is much more powerful than that. Through ALEC, behind closed doors, corporations hand state legislators the changes to the law they desire that directly benefit their bottom line. Along with legislators, corporations have membership in ALEC. Corporations sit on all nine ALEC task forces and vote with legislators to approve “model” bills. They have their own corporate governing board which meets jointly with the legislative board. (ALEC says that corporations do not vote on the board.) Corporations fund almost all of ALEC's operations. Participating legislators, overwhelmingly conservative Republicans, then bring those proposals home and introduce them in statehouses across the land as their own brilliant ideas and important public policy innovations—without disclosing that corporations crafted and voted on the bills. ALEC boasts that it has over 1,000 of these bills introduced by legislative members every year, with one in every five of them enacted into law. ALEC describes itself as a “unique,” “unparalleled” and “unmatched” organization. We agree. It is as if a state legislature had been reconstituted, yet corporations had pushed the people out the door.
http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed

I don't know what more to say. It is as plain as the nose on one's face, from a preponderance of the evidence, that "voting fraud" was not much of an issue until fairly recently. Furthermore, there is a traceable reason why it has become one now.

The right wing is trying to tie together all the loose threads they've been working on for the past 40 years since the publication of The Powell Memo: Unfettered global migration of corporate capital; Grover Norquist's no tax pledge; the assault on every progressive measure since the New Deal; an assault on voting rights to swing the balance of the electorate rightward.

The corporations will be able to go anywhere and do anything without a poor, aging or unemployed American population to worry about supporting with their tax dollars, and -- this is the best part for them -- nobody will be at the ballot box to change what they have wrought, because there will be no one there at the ballot box -- except people just like them and among whom they all agree.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:05 am

I have no idea what ALEC is or does.

As for all those people who have roadblocks, I have not seen any. You register, you follow the rules of your state and you vote. Simple. Can't go on election day? Get an absentee ballot. Don't have all the right ID? Get a provisional ballot. The only ones I have seen blocked from actually voting was the people who wanted to vote but were met by Black Panthers thugs with night sticks who threatened them. Yet our AT General decided to drop the charges because, umm, let's see, they were black?

There was no deplorable state for dear Dorothy. Even without the media hoopla, she was going to get her ID. She had to prove who she was. She needed the right documents. She went back and got the ID without further problem.

Now you come up with some kind of right wing conspiracy theory that involves using ID laws, corporations and goofy tax pledges. I don't buy into conspiracy theories since they make as much sense at the boogy man under the bed.

You keep telling me that all these roadblocks only affects the democrats. Yet, you have not said how you know that all college students are democrat (they are not), all black people vote democrat (they don't), all white people vote republican (they don't), all poor people are democrat, (they are not), all old people are democrat (they are not). In fact, as people age, over 80% go to the republican side.

I have not seen any cases of voter fraud. I have seen cases of voter registration fraud. Looks like to me that if all the democrats are the poor and illegals who can't vote, how did Obama get elected? Was that some voter fraud in favor of the democrats? Or does it count as fraud if its for them?

If you are going to tell me that letting any one vote in any election no matter what is the politically correct thing to do; then let out the prisoners, round up all the drug lords, bus in as many illegals as you can find and give them all that free cheese and milk to buy their vote for the 'proper' Democratic candidate picked by the ruling elites of the democratic party like George Sorros, Bill Maher, or the Clintons.

No, it is the lack of ID that leads to a farce for an election. If proving who you are is too much of a burden, then you don't need to vote.

BTW, some people don't believe 'progressive' methods are the right idea. I realize that is a shock to you but luckily, for now, we still have two parties so neither one gets to go nuts and pass insane laws. Those Founding Fathers were a hell of a lot smarter than we give them credit for.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:37 am

I have always had to show ID also. Must just be a Lauderdale County thing...........................ohhhhhh and my aunt is in charge of the voting booths and she still IDs me........wait until the next election Razz


I have never really seen it as an intrusion into my privacy/freedoms. I have always taken the position that it's protection against someone else using my name to vote and "vis a vis" stealing my vote...........

Let me ponder this some more please.............

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PostSubject: Re: Why Republicans need Voter ID   Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:03 pm

lmm wrote:
I have no idea what ALEC is or does.

As for all those people who have roadblocks, I have not seen any. You register, you follow the rules of your state and you vote. Simple. Can't go on election day? Get an absentee ballot. Don't have all the right ID? Get a provisional ballot. The only ones I have seen blocked from actually voting was the people who wanted to vote but were met by Black Panthers thugs with night sticks who threatened them. Yet our AT General decided to drop the charges because, umm, let's see, they were black?

There was no deplorable state for dear Dorothy. Even without the media hoopla, she was going to get her ID. She had to prove who she was. She needed the right documents. She went back and got the ID without further problem.

Now you come up with some kind of right wing conspiracy theory that involves using ID laws, corporations and goofy tax pledges. I don't buy into conspiracy theories since they make as much sense at the boogy man under the bed.

You keep telling me that all these roadblocks only affects the democrats. Yet, you have not said how you know that all college students are democrat (they are not#, all black people vote democrat #they don't#, all white people vote republican #they don't#, all poor people are democrat, #they are not#, all old people are democrat #they are not#. In fact, as people age, over 80% go to the republican side.

I have not seen any cases of voter fraud. I have seen cases of voter registration fraud. Looks like to me that if all the democrats are the poor and illegals who can't vote, how did Obama get elected? Was that some voter fraud in favor of the democrats? Or does it count as fraud if its for them?

If you are going to tell me that letting any one vote in any election no matter what is the politically correct thing to do; then let out the prisoners, round up all the drug lords, bus in as many illegals as you can find and give them all that free cheese and milk to buy their vote for the 'proper' Democratic candidate picked by the ruling elites of the democratic party like George Sorros, Bill Maher, or the Clintons.

No, it is the lack of ID that leads to a farce for an election. If proving who you are is too much of a burden, then you don't need to vote.

BTW, some people don't believe 'progressive' methods are the right idea. I realize that is a shock to you but luckily, for now, we still have two parties so neither one gets to go nuts and pass insane laws. Those Founding Fathers were a hell of a lot smarter than we give them credit for.


You can’t argue with the facts I present. So you make up a new set of assertions, attribute them to me, then argue against that. Pure strawman technique. The naïve would not know you were doing that; I do.

Quote :
You keep telling me that all these roadblocks only affects the democrats.
You made that up, right? I never said that.

Quote :
Yet, you have not said how you know that all college students are democrat (they are not), all black people vote democrat (they don't), all white people vote republican (they don't), all poor people are democrat, (they are not), all old people are democrat (they are not).
I never said “all.” Nothing is 100% except death. However, they are the constituencies that have been targeted by voter ID because, in the main, they tend to vote Democratic.

Quote :
In fact, as people age, over 80% go to the republican side.
Believe it or not, I actually do study up on this stuff, so I can recognize made up facts. Flat assertions like this one are seldom wholly correct. Just like the Big Lie, it may start with a kernel of truth, but stops before telling the whole story. So, let's see how that "80% go to the republican side" (totally?) stacks up against actual facts:

For example, check out this little tidbit:


Quote :
The Generation Gap and the 2012 Election
SECTION 6: GENERATIONS AND ENTITLEMENTS
The policy debates over Social Security and Medicare are potentially cross-cutting issues for older generations. Silents, as well as many Boomers, place a high priority on these issues politically and are generally more resistant to major changes or reforms than are younger Americans. As a result, while Silents favor the GOP by wide margins on jobs and the budget deficit, they are as likely to prefer the Democrats when it comes to Social Security. Silent and Baby Boom generation voters who are the most dependent on Social Security, and those who say it is an important issue to their vote, back Obama over Romney by significant margins.
http://www#people-press#org/2011/11/03/section-6-generations-and-entitlements/

Quote :
If you are going to tell me that letting any one vote in any election no matter what is the politically correct thing to do; then let out the prisoners, round up all the drug lords, bus in as many illegals as you can find and give them all that free cheese and milk to buy their vote for the 'proper' Democratic candidate picked by the ruling elites of the democratic party like George Sorros, Bill Maher, or the Clintons
Step back, read that again with a cold and dispassionate critical eye, and tell me who is going off the deep end. Now do you see how far toward stupid some arguments can start sounding when the strawman starts to unravel?

By the way, that little tidbit I quoted above comes from a Pew Research Center report released November 3, 2011. This is the kind of demographic data that ALEC and other right wing think tanks look at to determine who to target with different legislation specifically designed to erect hurdles of new, extra requirements -- like voter ID -- that must be overcome and totally complied with to vote Democratic. Now think of that report times 30, and you can see the volume of data available at their fingertips to sift, collate, and boil down into just the right recipe to block Democratic voters.

That is not to say that those who may vote Republican (or other party) won’t be affected. But, in the main, those are the demographics that tend to vote Democratic and least likely to be able to fulfill that particular requirement – which is precisely the reason it was chosen to be targeted.


Quote :
The Pew Research Report: The Generation Gap and the 2012 Election
http://www.people-press.org/2011/11/03/the-generation-gap-and-the-2012-election-3/

Download that for future reference, because it is very detailed. When you have digested all that, write a one page synopsis on what you have learned. Your report is due next Monday.

See you then -- have fun with your reading assignment!
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